The best proof against atheism is to imagine what they profess: What if nothing exists, no God a total blank!

Epigraph:

بَدِيعُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۖ وَإِذَا قَضَىٰ أَمْرًا فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ

He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees something, He says only, ‘Be,’ and it is. (Al Quran 2:117)

Have they been created from nothing, or are they their own creators? Have they created the heavens and the earth? In truth they put no faith in anything. (Al Quran 52:35-36)

Written and collected by Zia H Shah MD

Imagine a world where there are no material things, no universe, now imagine yourself in deep anesthesia a feeling of nothing, you do not exist and no other consciousness exists, no humans, no God, no angels, no Satan, nothing at all!

My main suggestion to the open minded readers is to read on and in the words of Sir Francis Bacon, “Read not to contradict … but to weigh and consider.”

Now, go to minute 2.30 of the above video, What is Nothing by Closer to Truth and locate a 15 seconds comment of the Nobel Laureate Steven Weinberg, who shared his 1979 Nobel Prize in physics with Dr. Abdus Salam and Sheldon Glashow. He clearly states and I may be paraphrasing a little that even if we find a theory of everything, some mathematical explanation, we will still not know where mathematics came from.

With his statement it is also easy to explain the position of the majority of the mathematicians that mathematics is discovered and not invented by humanity. What we discover would exist in the mind of the eternal creator, who created our universe with truth, justice and mathematics: Allah created the universe or the multiverse through mathematics  بِالْحَقِّ.

A precise and open discussion about nothing, I believe, brings us to the conclusion that God is necessary. An eternal creator of our universe is necessary.

We merely have to imagine nothing precisely, no materials, no space, no time, nothing abstract like numbers or logic, then we arrive at the truth painlessly. If you do reach the end of the above video, the moderator Robert Lawrence Kuhn describes 9 levels of nothing and to me the total blank is his highest level nine of nothing. We cannot get our universe from the highest blank: nothing comes out of nothing. By imagining nothing in all its essence, ultimately leads us to our creator, and He had told us about Himself in that light in the verses of the Quran quoted as epigraph.

QED

Additional reading and viewing

Video: Is God Necessary or Who Made God?

How Could Most Mathematicians Believe in Heaven, But Not in God?

Videos and A Book: Why is There Anything At All?

Our closest ape relatives: Chimpanzees and bonobos

Epigraph:

“Glorify the name of your Lord the Most High. Who created and made man flawless, Who determined the measure of his faculties and guided them accordingly.” (Al Quran 87:1-3)

“What is the matter with you? Why will you not fear God’s majesty, when He has created you stage by stage? Have you ever wondered how God created seven heavens, one above the other, placed the moon as a light in them and the sun as a lamp, how God made you spring forth from the earth like a plant, how He will return you into it and then bring you out again, and how He has spread the Earth out for you to walk along its spacious paths?” (Al Quran 71:13-20)

Chimpanzee mother and a baby
Written and collected by Zia H Shah MD, Chief Editor of the Muslim Times

The Human Genome Project was a large, well-organized, and highly collaborative international effort that generated the first sequence of the human genome and that of several additional well-studied organisms. Carried out from 1990–2003, it was one of the most ambitious and important scientific endeavors in human history.

The sequence of the human genome generated by the Human Genome Project was not from a single person. Rather, it reflects a patchwork from multiple people whose identities were intentionally made anonymous to protect their privacy.

The project researchers used a thoughtful process to recruit volunteers, acquire their informed consent, and collect their blood samples. Most of the human genome sequence generated by the Human Genome Project came from blood donors in Buffalo, New York; specifically, 93% from 11 donors, and 70% from one donor.

In April 2003, the consortium announced that it had generated an essentially complete human genome sequence, which was significantly improved from the draft sequence. Specifically, it accounted for 92% of the human genome and less than 400 gaps; it was also more accurate.

On March 31, 2022, the Telomere-to-Telomere (T2T) consortium announced that had filled in the remaining gaps and produced the first truly complete human genome sequence.

The Chimpanzee Genome Project was an effort to determine the DNA sequence of the chimpanzee genome. Sequencing began in 2005 and by 2013 twenty-four individual chimpanzees had been sequenced. This project was folded into the Great Ape Genome Project.[1]

In 2013 high resolution sequences were published from each of the four recognized[2][3] chimpanzee subspecies: Central chimpanzeePan troglodytes troglodytes, 10 sequences; Western chimpanzeePan troglodytes verus, 6 sequences; Nigeria-Cameroon chimpanzeePan troglodytes ellioti, 4 sequences; and Eastern chimpanzeePan troglodytes schweinfurthii, 4 sequences.

Chimpanzees now have to share the distinction of being our closest living relative in the animal kingdom. An international team of researchers has sequenced the genome of the bonobo for the first time, confirming that it shares the same percentage of its DNA with us as chimps do. The team also found some small but tantalizing differences in the genomes of the three species—differences that may explain how bonobos and chimpanzees don’t look or act like us even though we share about 99% of our DNA.

“We’re so closely related genetically, yet our behavior is so different,” says team member and computational biologist Janet Kelso of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany. “This will allow us to look for the genetic basis of what makes modern humans different from both bonobos and chimpanzees.”

Ever since researchers sequenced the chimp genome in 2005, they have known that humans share about 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, making them our closest living relatives. But there are actually two species of apes that are this closely related to humans: bonobos (Pan paniscus) and the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). This has prompted researchers to speculate whether the ancestor of humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos looked and acted more like a bonobo, a chimpanzee, or something else—and how all three species have evolved differently since the ancestor of humans split with the common ancestor of bonobos and chimps between 4 million and 7 million years ago in Africa.[1]

Bonobo

The bonobo genome shows that more than 3% of the human genome is more closely related to either bonobos or chimpanzees than these are to each other. This can be used to illuminate the population history and selective events that affected the ancestor of bonobos and chimpanzees. In addition, about 25% of human genes contain parts that are more closely related to one of the two apes than the other. Such regions can now be identified and will hopefully contribute to the unravelling of the genetic background of phenotypic similarities among humans, bonobos and chimpanzees.[2]

The analysis of female bonobo, Ulindi’s complete genome, reported online in Nature, in 2012, reveals that bonobos and chimpanzees share 99.6% of their DNA. This confirms that these two species of African apes are still highly similar to each other genetically, even though their populations split apart in Africa about 1 million years ago, perhaps after the Congo River formed and divided an ancestral population into two groups. Today, bonobos are found in only the Democratic Republic of Congo and there is no evidence that they have interbred with chimpanzees in equatorial Africa since they diverged, perhaps because the Congo River acted as a barrier to prevent the groups from mixing. The researchers also found that bonobos share about 98.7% of their DNA with humans—about the same amount that chimps share with us.[1]

These similarities are enough to prove that chimpanzees, bonobos and humans share common ancestry. Another proof of common ancestry comes from retroviruses that comprise almost 8% of the human genome. This is examined in a separate chapter: Our mammalian family and placenta: What a retrovirus did, humanity cannot.

The best argument for evolution and of our common ancestry with apes comes from our broken vitamin C gene.

Most animals are able to synthesize vitamin C or ascorbic acid from glucose in either the kidney or the liver. About 61 million years ago, some mammals and primates, including our human ancestors, lost the ability for this endogenous vitamin C synthesis. This occurred due to the inactivation of l-gulono-lactone oxidase (GLO) gene with the consequence that the last step of the ascorbate synthesis from glucose was blocked. From then on, these species, including some primates, guinea pigs and Indian fruit bats, have been dependent on dietary, daily intake of vitamin C.[3]

Kenneth R Miller is professor of molecular biology in Brown University. He is award winning author of books on evolution. In his book, Only a theory: Evolution and the Battle for America’s Soul, he beautifully describes the issue of Vitamin C:

The need for Vitamin C is also characteristic of a certain group of primates, the very ones that happen to be our closest evolutionary relatives. Orangutan, gorillas and chimps require vitamin C, as do some other primates, such as macaques. But more distantly related primates, including those known as prosimians, have fully functional GLO genes. That means that the common ancestor in which the capacity to make vitamin C was originally lost wasn’t a human, but a primate.[4]

The Ring-tailed lemur is one of twenty-two species of lemurs

Prosimians like lemurs and some monkeys do not need vitamin C in their diet for they can make it from simpler ingredients, but, our closely related primates do. Miller explains further with a good paragraph with a pithy punch line conclusion:

But the interesting part of the story is that we aren’t exactly missing GLO gene. In fact, it is right there on chromosome 8, in pretty much the same relative position in our genome where it is found in other mammals. The problem is that our copy of the GLO gene has accumulated so many mutations, in the form of changes in the DNA base sequence, that it no longer works. We have got to include vitamin C in our diets because we carry a defective version of our GLO gene. In effect, we all suffer from a genetic disease, which we can correct only by including vitamin C in our diets. What follows, of course, is a very logical question. If the designer wanted us to be dependent on vitamin C, why didn’t he just leave out the GLO gene from the plan of our genome? Why is its corpse still there?[5]

Richard Dawkins describes human journey of evolution from unicellular organisms to the modern era, but traveling backwards in a reverse direction, starting with modern humans, through apes, through primates, rodents and rabbits and so on. His book is The Ancestor’s Tale: A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Evolution. As we travel back through time and as two species join into a common species or a common ancestor, he names that common ancestor a ‘concestor.’ He writes about the common ancestry between the modern humans and the present day chimpanzees:

Between 5 and 7 million years ago, somewhere in Africa, we human pilgrims enjoy a momentous encounter. It is Rendezvous 1, our first meeting with pilgrims from another species. Two other species to be precise, for the common chimpanzee pilgrims and the pygmy chimpanzee or bonobo pilgrims have already joined forces with each other some 4 million years ‘before’ their rendezvous with us. The common ancestor we share with them, Concestor 1, is our 250,000-greats-grandparent — an approximate guess this, of course, like the comparable estimates that I shall be making for other concestors.

As we approach Rendezvous 1, then, the chimpanzee pilgrims are approaching the same point from another direction. Unfortunately we don’t know anything about that other direction. Although Africa has yielded up some thousands of hominid fossils or fragments of fossils, not a single fossil has ever been found which can definitely be regarded as along the chimpanzee line of descent from Concestor 1. This may be because they are forest animals, and the leaf litter of forest floors is not friendly to fossils. Whatever the reason, it means that the chimpanzee pilgrims are searching blind. Their equivalent contemporaries of the Turkana Boy, of 1470, of Mrs Ples, Lucy, Little Foot, Dear Boy, and the rest of ‘our’ fossils — have never been found.[6]

The next meeting points or rendezvous are with the Gorillas, orangutans, gibbons, old world monkeys, new world monkeys, tarsiers, lemurs and bushbabies, colugos and tree shrews and rodents and rabbits to name the first 10 rendezvous with us, the modern humans. By the time our ancestors meet the ancestors of rodents (rats) and rabbits, we have travelled backward in our evolutionary journey some 75 million years.

Chimpanzees and humans are closely related, sharing 95% of their DNA sequence and 99% of coding DNA sequences. Hybridization between chimpanzees and bonobos has been documented, as they share 99.6% of their genomes. However, genetic similarity, and thus the chances of successful hybridization, is not always correlated with visual appearances. For example, pugs and huskies look quite dissimilar, but belong to the same species and subspecies and can hybridize freely. On the other hand, rabbits and hares look very similar, but are only distantly related and cannot hybridize.[7]

All great apes have similar genetic structure. Humans have one pair fewer chromosomes than other apes, as humans have 23 chromosome pairs, and chimpanzees have 24, with ape chromosomes 2 and 4 fused in the human genome into a large chromosome (which contains remnants of the centromere and telomeres of the ancestral 2 and 4). Chromosomes 6, 13, 19, 21, 22, and X are structurally the same in all great apes. Chromosomes 3, 11, 14, 15, 18, and 20 match between gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans. Chimpanzees and humans match on 1, 2p, 2q, 5, 7–10, 12, 16, and Y as well. Some older references include Y as a match between gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans, but chimpanzees, bonobos, and humans have recently been found to share a large transposition from chromosome 1 to Y not found in other apes.[8]

This is the scientific understanding of apes and our common ancestry. But, they are mentioned at least three times in the Quran as well:

The [Muslim] believers, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabians –– all those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good–– will have their rewards with their Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve. Remember when We took your pledge, and made the mountain tower high above you, and said, ‘Hold fast to what We have given you and bear its contents in mind, so that you may be conscious of God.’ Even after that you turned away. Had it not been for God’s favor and mercy on you, you would certainly have been lost. You know about those of you who broke the Sabbath, and so We said to them, ‘Be like apes! Be outcasts!’ We made this an example to those people who were there at the time and to those who came after them, and a lesson to all who are mindful of God. (Al Quran 2:62-66)

Say [Prophet], ‘People of the Book, do you resent us for any reason other than the fact that we believe in God, in what has been sent down to us, and in what was sent before us, while most of you are disobedient?’ Say, ‘Shall I tell you who deserves a worse punishment from God than [the one you wish upon] us? Those God distanced from Himself, was angry with, and condemned as apes and pigs, and those who worship idols: they are worse in rank and have strayed further from the right path. (Al Quran 5:59-60)

[Prophet], ask them about the town by the sea; how its people broke the Sabbath when their fish surfaced for them only on that day, never on weekdays–– We tested them in this way: because of their disobedience––how, when some of them asked [their preachers], ‘Why do you bother preaching to people God will destroy, or at least punish severely?’ [the preachers] answered, ‘In order to be free from your Lord’s blame, and so that they may perhaps take heed.’ When they ignored [the warning] they were given, We saved those who forbade evil, and punished the wrongdoers severely because of their disobedience. When, in their arrogance, they persisted in doing what they had been forbidden to do, We said to them, ‘Be like apes! Be outcasts!’ (Al Quran 7:163-166)

Some Muslim scholars with dogmatic approach to life take these verses literally and think that some apes may have devolved from the humans as a punishment of God, but, the more insightful Muslim commentators take these verses to be metaphorical.

So, the best understanding of our relationship with apes comes from the verses that refer to evolution, including the ones used as epigraph in this chapter and the latest evidence from molecular biology and genetics.

So, if the above mentions in the Quran about apes are a metaphor what else is a metaphor in the Quran?

References
  1. https://www.science.org/content/article/bonobos-join-chimps-closest-human-relatives
  2. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11128
  3. https://academic.oup.com/emph/article/2019/1/221/5556105
  4. Kenneth R Miller. Only a theory: Evolution and the Battle for America’s Soul. Penguin books, 2009. Page 99.
  5. Kenneth R Miller. Only a theory: Evolution and the Battle for America’s Soul. Penguin books, 2009. Page 98.
  6. Prof. Richard Dawkins. The Ancestor’s Tale: A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Evolution. Publisher: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt (2004); page 100.
  7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee
  8. Wimmer R, Kirsch S, Rappold GA, Schempp W (2002). “Direct Evidence for a Pan–Homo Clade”. Chromosome Research. 10 (1): 55–61.

The Quran and Creation Ex Nihilo: Is This God Speaking or Muhammad?

Epigraph:

بَدِيعُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۖ وَإِذَا قَضَىٰ أَمْرًا فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ

He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees something, He says only, ‘Be,’ and it is. (Al Quran 2:117)

The Big Bang in an artist’s imagination

Written and collected by Zia H Shah MD, Chief Editor of the Muslim Times

Modern cosmology now suggests that our universe came to being some 13.7 billion years ago and that there are two trillion galaxies in our universe.

The Muslims take the Quran to be the literal word of All-Knowing God. The non-Muslims either are unsure about it, don’t have an opinion on this, or may think of it as word of Muhammad, his own words or borrowed from some helper.

I am writing a series of articles on this theme, discussing one verse at a time. The first two article of this series are: Quran: Is This God Speaking or Muhammad? and: The Quran and the Expanding Universe: Is This God Speaking or Muhammad?

Creatio ex nihilo (Latin for “creation out of nothing”) is the doctrine that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act.[1] It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe came to exist. It is in contrast to Ex nihilo nihil fit or “nothing comes from nothing“, which means that all things were formed from preexisting things; an idea by the Greek philosopher Parmenides (c. 540 – c. 480 BC) about the nature of all things, and later more formally stated by Titus Lucretius Carus (c. 99 – c. 55 BC).

According to Maimonides, Aristotle believed that the world is eternal and that it has always existed in the form in which it now exists.[1] The God of the Bible and the Quran created from nothing or ex nihilo. While Aristotle refuses ex nihilo as well as de novo creation. Plato suggested de novo creation. Platonic view is that although the material component of the world is eternal, its form or structure was imposed by God during creation, as de novo.

The Big Bang theory may be one way for the verse, quoted as epigraph, to be true. Even if there were prior Big Bangs before our Bang some 13.7 billion years ago, it does not change the truth of this verse.

Let me now quote a commentary of the verse: “He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees something, He says only, ‘Be,’ and it is.” (Al Quran 2:117) The commentary is from, The Study Quran: A New Translation and Commentary, by Seyyed Hossein Nasr:

Decrees translates qaḍā, which can also mean ‘to accomplish,’ ‘to complete,’ or ‘to judge.’ The creative command Be! is also found in 6:73; 16:40; 36:82; 40:68. In each case, all that is necessary to bring a thing into being is for God to say Be! In connection with the previous verse, similar language can also be found with regard to Jesus’ creation in 3:59: Truly the likeness of Jesus in the Sight of God is that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, ‘Be!’ and he was; and 19:35: It is not for God to beget a child. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, ‘Be!’ and it is. For some commentators such as al-Rāzī, the command Be! is meant to convey the ease and power by which God creates, requiring no preparation, practice, or effort. This view rejects the idea of a sequence of (1) a thing’s nonexistence, (2) God’s saying Be! and (3) its existence, since one cannot address nothing, and if something exists, it does not need the Be! in order to exist. Others say Be! neither precedes nor follows the creation of a thing, but is coterminous with it (Q). This verse is also understood as confirming that God knows things prior to their creation, and hence before their existence (Q).


This latter idea is expanded upon by Ibn ʿArabī and many members of his school, who explain that God says Be! to the forms (or “immutable essences,” al-aʿyān al-thābitah) in His Knowledge, meaning His Knowledge of His own Qualities and Attributes. That is to say, God knows what He will create and brings His Will and Power to bear upon that object of knowledge in order to create it by saying Be! Being within God’s Knowledge, it is not nothing, but neither is it yet created, nor does it possess existence. Ultimately, these views converge on the unity of God’s Knowledge, Will, and Power as His inseparable Attributes and on God’s complete self-sufficiency in relation to what He creates. Be! (kun) also corresponds to the Biblical fiat lux (“Let there be light,” Genesis 1:3) and serves to emphasize the fact that the existence of everything comes from God and His Will and that human beings do not have the power to bring anything into being out of nothing.

Muhammad, may peace be on him, could have known Aristotle’s view as well as what is in the Bible. Now, in an age of Google, I am able to quickly pick up Biblical verses about creation ex nihilo. Here they are:

  • Psalms 33:6 (RSV) By the word of the LORD [i.e., not by existing matter] the heavens were made, and all their host by the breath of his mouth.
  • Isaiah 44:24 . . . “I am the LORD, who made all things . . . “
  • Wisdom 1:14 For he created all things that they might exist, . . . 
  • John 1:3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
  • Romans 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. . . .
  • 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
  • Ephesians 3:9 . . . God who created all things;
  • Colossians 1:16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities — all things were created through him and for him.
  • Hebrews 2:10 . . . he, for whom and by whom all things exist . . .
  • 2 Peter 3:5 . . . by the word of God [i.e., not by existing matter] heavens existed long ago . . . 
  • Revelation 4:11 “. . . our Lord and God, . . . didst create all things, and by thy will they existed and were created.”

The Christian reading of some of the above verses is a Triune creator and John 1:3 may be suggesting Jesus to be the Creator.

Muhammad had no way to find a sublime articulation of creation ex nihilo, while busy fighting for his life and message in a defensive war. Additionally, he was not literate.

This reminds me of the opening verses of Surah Furqan:

Exalted is He who has sent the Differentiator down to His servant so that it may be a warning to all people. It is He who has control over the heavens and earth and has no offspring––no one shares control with Him––and who created all things and made them to an exact measure. Yet the disbelievers take as their gods things beneath Him that create nothing, and are themselves created, that can neither harm nor help themselves, and have no control over death, life, or resurrection.
The disbelievers say, ‘This can only be a lie he has forged with the help of others’––they themselves have done great wrong and told lies––and they say, ‘It is just ancient fables, which he has had written down: they are dictated to him morning and evening.’ Say, ‘It was sent down by Him who knows the secrets of the heavens and earth. He is all forgiving, all merciful. (Al Quran 25:1-6)

For me to demonstrate creation ex nihilo, as suggested in the above commentary of the Quranic verse by Nasr, I need Robert Lawrence Kuhn[1] (born November 6, 1944), who is a public intellectual, corporate strategist, and investment banker. He is the author and editor of over 25 books, a columnist for major Chinese and international newspapers, and a media commentator on topics related to China. Kuhn is a recipient of the China Reform Friendship Medal and a long-time adviser to the Chinese government.[2] He has been called “one of the Western world’s most prolific interpreters of Beijing’s policies”.[3] He has now become a prolific producer of short documentaries, under the title Closer to Truth.

Closer to Truth is a continuing television series on PBS and public television stations, created, executive-produced, written and hosted by Kuhn, and produced and directed by Peter Getzels.[9] The series premiered in 2000 and is in its 19th season (Closer to Truth: Cosmos. Consciousness. Meaning/God). It offers conversations with leading scientists, philosophers, theologians and scholars on topics such as cosmology, physics, philosophy of science, consciousness (brain/mind), and philosophy of religion. Kuhn’s presentation, “Asking Ultimate Questions”, serves as the foundation of Closer To Truth.[10]

So, without further adoo, let me present one of his videos:

Now let us proceed to two other documentaries to conceptualize ‘nothing’ better:

The last interviewee in the above video David Bentley Hart, starting around minute 16, takes us to God as the Creator ex nihilo of our universe, as a necessity. In the concluding remarks, Kuhn raises four possibilities for why there is anything at all:

  1. It is not a valid question, the laws of physics are what they are.
  2. The laws of physics can bring universe into existence from quantum heavy nothing.
  3. The question cannot be answered within physics and can be tackled only within philosophy.
  4. The contingent series of causes, however long, should terminate into something that is an ultimate necessity.

Kuhn did not give a name for the fourth and the last possibility, while picture of David Hart played, who had made the best case for God, as a necessity. Kuhn then said that each of these possibilities is attacked by some.

Now, if we can suitably exclude the first three then in light of David Bentley Hart’s interview in the last video above, the theists have a strong case for creation ex nihilo, as stated in the Quran and Unitarian as opposed to Trinitarian reading of the Bible.

Some scientists and mathematicians take mathematics to be eternal or self existent. But, how can that be? Mathematics are like thoughts that require a conscious being for their very existence. Robert Lawrence Kuhn has created enough videos in his series, Closer to Truth, for me to demonstrate that: Laws of Nature and Mathematics are not Eternal or Platonic.

He has also been obsessed about the mystery as to what is “Nothing,” and in doing so created several videos for a theist to imagine creation ex nihilo better: Robert Lawrence Kuhn’s Videos: Why is There Anything At All?

All these extensive and obsessive discussions, in my opinion are proof enough that the Quran is literal word of God and not of Muhammad.

References

  1. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/maimonides-on-the-origin-of-the-world/aristotle-and-the-arguments-for-eternity/81CE67364969F53118F488C4E43363D8